Tuesday, October 19, 2010

Got Down Syndrome? Now you too can go to College!

Do you suffer from Down Syndrome or some other form of mental retardation? Good news! The Associated Press reports that now you, too, can go to college!

Decades ago attaining a college education meant that you had demonstrated that your IQ was probably above average. Today, everyone and even their brother with Down's Syndrome can go to college. Is it any wonder that college degrees have lost much of their economic value? Who's paying for all of this? Our tax dollars, of course.

That growth is partly because of an increasing demand for higher education for these students and there are new federal funds for such programs. The federal rules that took effect this fall allow students with intellectual disabilities to receive grants and work-study money.
At least one commentator gets it:
The infusion of federal money has generated some criticism. Conservative commentator Charlotte Allen said it's a waste to spend federal tax dollars on the programs and insisted that calling them college dilutes the meaning of college.
"It's a kind of fantasy," said Allen, a contributing editor for Minding the Campus, a publication of the fiscally conservative Manhattan Institute. "It may make intellectually disabled people feel better, but is that what college is supposed to be all about?"
Will for-profit, predatory colleges start offering associates and bachelors degrees for mentally retarded people? My guess is yes, as long as the federal dollars are available.

----------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:  Apparently someone linked to my blog at a Down Syndrome forum or community website.  (How the hell did anyone even find this post on an obscure blog?)  Anyway, welcome to Fluster Cucked.  Please allow me to clarify the context which regular readers and the target audience of this blog would understand.

I only have sympathy for people with Down Syndrome and other cognitive disabilities.  The purpose of my post was not to mock people with mental disabilities, but rather to point out the absurdity of the notion that everyone should go to college and to publicize the fact that our government and colleges are bending over backwards to send everyone to college.

In my view, our nation is wasting a huge amount of economic resources--people's time and money--on higher education that has no real economic value.  The result is that our nation has a large oversupply of college-educated people who end up unemployed or underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field, including people with PhD's and professional degrees.  In my opinion, only the brightest and most ambitious people should go to college, at least to traditional four year colleges, because the overwhelming majority of jobs make little or no use of college education.

Many jobs require people to have a college education in order to obtain employment, not because a college education is directly useful, but rather as a proxy for separating out candidates by IQ, a sense of ambitiousness, and responsibility.  Decades ago these very same jobs were filled with people who had mere high school diplomas and they received training and learned on the job without an expenditure of four years' worth of time and student loan debt.  I think our society would be wealthier and fewer people would be saddled with non-dischargeable student loan debt if unneeded college education were no longer required for employment that doesn't make direct use of higher education.  In my view, college graduate production in a certain field should correspond more closely to the real-world demand for college graduates in that field.

Thus, in my opinion people with Down Syndrome and other cognitive disabilities simply should not be able to gain access to college, at least not on the taxpayers' dime, nor should they feel a compelling need to do so.  I suspect that the kinds of work most people with cognitive disabilities would perform make little real use of a college education.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm under the perception that they aren't going to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, accountants, or computer programmers--things that make real use of a college education and that have economic value.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Do you have something against people with mental disabilities being able to have a chance for an education? Perhaps we should just send everyone with downs syndrome to an island off of Alaska so we don't have to deal with.

I for one think it's great that people with mental disabilities have a chance for an education if going to college will benefit them. The only people who will know one way or the other is a disabled peron's guardian and doctors. Perhaps a college education will help them become productive members of society. Perhaps it will let them live a more enjoyable life, which they have every right to.

I appreciate your point about colleges and predatory lending and hope safe guards will be put in place with regard to disabled people taking out student loans. But, as the article you quote from states, I have no problem with mentally disabled people receiving grants and work-study jobs. And are you really that insecure about your own IQ that you somehow think that having mentally disabled people allowed to go to college will lessen the value of your degree?

Anonymous said...

College is about bettering yourself and demonstrating that desire and the follow on successes the the world of employees. Having gotten an MBA from a top ranked school, I have met far too many people who see it as a status symbol.

This is akin to saying "it used to be only the well to do that had running water and indoor plumbing, wah wah now my gardner can afford a crapper"

You need prozac and a stiff drink

Anonymous said...

My daughter's college experience (she has Down syndrome) gave her the skills to gain a full-time job that allows her to pay her own rent and bills without drawing SSI or using Medicaid. I guess you would rather she was idle and lived on your money.

Your title is a cheap shot. Your issues with higher education have nothing to do with a few folks with intellectual disabilities who attend colleges and receive certificates, not degrees.

Stephanie said...

If you are going to make fun of somebody- get the terminology correct. It is Down syndrome. And, if they are given the chance many people with Down syndrome ARE mentally competant enough to complete a college education!

Did you know that most college textbooks, including those for law school are written at a third grade reading level? This is BEOFE people with intellectual disabilites were accepted into college!

I am laughing because I just noticed your little quote at on the comment section "please be polite" However, you feel that you can put down and entire group of people because you are too bigoted to get to know somebody with DS and find out what they are REALLY like? Why are pepole so afraid of those with disabilites getting the same chance as everybody else? Are you afraid that they will out do you?

My kid with DS has more class in his diaper than most people who talk like you about those with intellectual disabilites do. He has been through and overcome more in his short life than you could ever THINK of enduring. He has done it with great effort and grace. The biggest obstacle he has to overcome is attitudes like yours.....it is KILLING our children with DS.

I'll be forwarding your blog address through out the DS community. You can read of some of the horror stories that our children have had to live through because of attitudes like yours....everything from "Let your kid die & start over" to " we don't give transplants to people with DS becuase we don't like to waste the organs!"

Until people like you grow up and see that ALL people are valuable and if given the chance and the proper training they can ALL be more than productive members of society. But people are threatened by anything different. Replace Down syndrome in your title with "Black", "Illegal", "Gay", a "Woman"......This is just another form of prejudice. People with Down syndrome are going to college, getting married, living on their own, holding down jobs, and running their own businesses.

This may be your blog and your oppinion. If this is what you REALLY think, be prepared to defend your oppinion. It may be good practice for law school....

Learn what you are talking about before offering a controversial oppinion like this.....

Mom of a wonderful son with Down syndrome.

Stephanie

Anonymous said...

What a complete shame that you have no understanding of how much a disabled human being can contribute to a warped selfish society that obviously you belong to. I pity you cannot accept those with disabilities as been a human being and having the same rights as you. I pity you for who you are I feel very sorry that you have to go to so low description of those who were born different through no fault of their own, nor know how actual intelligent those that you mock are, just because they are different doesnt mean they cannot do things and sadly we are still only learning of all their abilities which are amazing. The days of institutionalising those with disabilities are over, instead we have whole new generations of typical people who value drink and drugs, in a throw away society who actually couldnt give a dam about anything - perhaps thats where you will find your lower grades - as these people have lost their roots and think themselves bigger than they are...

Anonymous said...

The last two comments before mine say it all and I could never say it better myself...I will not even venture to go into it as my daughter who has Down syndrome may never have the opportunity to go to college...she's in her 2nd round of high school for job training at a wonderful local school in our area. It's horrible however that some people use the internet to blast mentally challenged people when "we parents" have come so far in "paving the road" for those that came after our children...if they're able then they should be allowed the same opportunities that typical people are - with assistance...they're humans as well, after all!

Anonymous said...

Maybe, just maybe you could learn more than what they are teaching at college by volunteering with your school's best buddy chapter? I value a good debate and you seem like a worthy candidate but I refuse to debate a subject with an uneducated participant. And you are very uneducated when it comes to individuals with Down syndrome as well as others who have a mental disability. Find out for yourself if people who have 47 chromosomes truly do drain the resources or if they contribute to society in ways most of us can only dream of doing. After you have a clue, I welcome you to post and debate the topic again.

College graduate,mother of 4, one with Down syndrome.

Nando said...

To the ultrasensitive parents out there attacking this blog author and his post:

Chill out, step back and take a breath before jumping in with your knee-jerk reactions. You love your kids. Who wouldn't?

About me: I am a law school graduate. I - as well as many thousands of others, per year - was not able to land a legal job. I make a living at something else.

My brother-in-law was born with hydrocephalus, i.e. "water on the brain." Him and his mother often stay in my basement. Jesse is about the kindest person I know. My wife describes him as having "the mind of a 5 year old." (He also happens to be one of the few people I have never faantacized committing violence on.)

My brother in law does not wipe his own ass! He is 26, and his parents and sisters must wipe his own butt for him. HOW WOULD HE BE SERVED BY GOING TO COLLEGE?!?! Answer me that, idiots. When you can do so with a cogent, lucid argument, THEN you can come on here and say that these mentally disabled people should be going to college.

We have LEGIONS of highly-educated, highly intelligent people with advanced degrees who are working at Starbucks, Radio Shack, Target, et al. making $7.50 an hour. They also have significant student loan debt, i.e. more than $100K in non-dischargeable loans.

Do you want to see your mentally-disabled son, daughter or nephew take on $50K-$120K in student loans - with no shot in hell of paying those off?!?! If so, then YOU are the sick one - although perhaps not as sick as the diploma mills who came up with this idea.

Nando said...

@ 5:23 am,

Also, leave aside the straw man argument, i.e. "Replace Down syndrome in your title with "Black", "Illegal", "Gay", a "Woman"......This is just another form of prejudice."

FlusterCucked is not a racist, sexist or otherwise prejudiced against those with physical or mental disabilities. Get a grip on reality, Stephanie. I am not going to mince words with you over-bearing parents.

You guys are allowing your emotions to cloud your judgment - and ability to follow a basic argument. This site is about helping students AVOID LARGE AMOUNTS OF STUDENT LOAN DEBT. You are aware that such debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, right?!?!

Well, why would you want to see people with Down syndrome strapped down with large student loan payments for the next 360 months of their lives? Will YOU be the one making those payments?!

Also, I have not seen anyone with such an ability in a high-level job making six figures. Education is not all about money - but most people go to school so they can make a living and maybe achieve a middle-class lifestyle. So money does enter the equation.

Anonymous said...

This post is not an attack on people with Down's Syndrome.

This blog addresses another issue. It is about the "Higher Education Industrial Complex". It specifically hits on the issue of Law School, where far too many students are admitted than needed and how they take excessive loans to pay for them.

This blog also hits on several poignant economic themes in regards to this. Namely, excessive debt, societal hypocrisy, and the underhanded nature of employment statistics from colleges.

Quite simply, Higher Education is a good thing, but most people do not understand the implications when they broadly support it.

Today Colleges have positioned themselves as "The only Game in Town". People generally believe the only way a person can succeed in life is with a College Degree.

Colleges rely on students to believe this, and especially love the tuition dollars they pay. A huge amount of tuition is paid for by government need based programs. They are designed to help people that have the academic ability to attend college, but lack the financial means to pay for it.

Colleges have run rampant as a result. Today we see college costs spiraled out of control, because they know that the bill can always get paid. But little Value is being provided when compared to the costs.

The Government extends financial aid to students that are admitted to college to help pay their tuition, and what happens? A lowering of academic standards, and degree inflation.

Colleges will admit as many students they need to fulfill registration quotas to pay their budgets. That's it. Sure there are elite institutions that have endowments bigger than some national economies, but they can be counted on 2 hands.

The reality is that opportunity for College is passed out as easily as PEZ candy now at an innumerable number of institutions. ANYONE can get admitted to some college somewhere and be qualified for a Federal Loan (and possibly grants) to pay the Bill. There is NO incentive for colleges to do anything but admit whoever wants to show up.

Colleges will gladly provide false hope to anyone interested in attending by claiming facts like College Grads earn a million dollars more than non-college counterparts (this was proven completely false)

Anonymous said...

This post is not an attack on people with Down's Syndrome.

This blog addresses another issue. It is about the "Higher Education Industrial Complex". It specifically hits on the issue of Law School, where far too many students are admitted than needed and how they take excessive loans to pay for them.

This blog also hits on several poignant economic themes in regards to this. Namely, excessive debt, societal hypocrisy, and the underhanded nature of employment statistics from colleges.

Quite simply, Higher Education is a good thing, but most people do not understand the implications when they broadly support it.

Today Colleges have positioned themselves as "The only Game in Town". People generally believe the only way a person can succeed in life is with a College Degree.

Colleges rely on students to believe this, and especially love the tuition dollars they pay. A huge amount of tuition is paid for by government need based programs. They are designed to help people that have the academic ability to attend college, but lack the financial means to pay for it.

Colleges have run rampant as a result. Today we see college costs spiraled out of control, because they know that the bill can always get paid. But little Value is being provided when compared to the costs.

The Government extends financial aid to students that are admitted to college to help pay their tuition, and what happens? A lowering of academic standards, and degree inflation.

Colleges will admit as many students they need to fulfill registration quotas to pay their budgets. That's it. Sure there are elite institutions that have endowments bigger than some national economies, but they can be counted on 2 hands.

The reality is that opportunity for College is passed out as easily as PEZ candy now at an innumerable number of institutions. ANYONE can get admitted to some college somewhere and be qualified for a Federal Loan (and possibly grants) to pay the Bill. There is NO incentive for colleges to do anything but admit whoever wants to show up.

Colleges will gladly provide false hope to anyone interested in attending by claiming facts like College Grads earn a million dollars more than non-college counterparts (this was proven completely false)

Anonymous said...

This post is not an attack on people with Down's Syndrome.

This blog addresses another issue. It is about the "Higher Education Industrial Complex". It specifically hits on the issue of Law School, where far too many students are admitted than needed and how they take excessive loans to pay for them.

This blog also hits on several poignant economic themes in regards to this. Namely, excessive debt, societal hypocrisy, and the underhanded nature of employment statistics from colleges.

Quite simply, Higher Education is a good thing, but most people do not understand the implications when they broadly support it.

Today Colleges have positioned themselves as "The only Game in Town". People generally believe the only way a person can succeed in life is with a College Degree.

Colleges rely on students to believe this, and especially love the tuition dollars they pay. A huge amount of tuition is paid for by government need based programs. They are designed to help people that have the academic ability to attend college, but lack the financial means to pay for it.

Colleges have run rampant as a result. Today we see college costs spiraled out of control, because they know that the bill can always get paid. But little Value is being provided when compared to the costs.

The Government extends financial aid to students that are admitted to college to help pay their tuition, and what happens? A lowering of academic standards, and degree inflation.

Colleges will admit as many students they need to fulfill registration quotas to pay their budgets. That's it. Sure there are elite institutions that have endowments bigger than some national economies, but they can be counted on 2 hands.

Anonymous said...

The reality is that opportunity for College is passed out as easily as PEZ candy now at an innumerable number of institutions. ANYONE can get admitted to some college somewhere and be qualified for a Federal Loan (and possibly grants) to pay the Bill. There is NO incentive for colleges to do anything but admit whoever wants to show up.

Colleges will gladly provide false hope to anyone interested in attending by claiming facts like College Grads earn a million dollars more than non-college counterparts (this was proven completely false)

The real issue here is determining what lengths for profit and non-profit colleges will go to build programs and increase revenues. Colleges are very much a business, and based on their trajectory they will continue down this road of admitting whoever wants a degree, as long as the expense is paid for.

Unfortunately in the wake of this admissions bonanza, they leave millions of students in student loan debt for degrees that do not qualify them for the type of employment they thought they earned.

It is terrible to wave this concept of success in the eyes of young people, telling them the only way to succeed in life is to go to college, go heavily into debt if needed, and then graduate them into an economy with little hope. At the end of the day, at least half of college graduates today never needed the degree to learn the skills they needed to fulfill the jobs they end up getting. What a waste of time and money.
Now, colleges want to extend a "college experience" to the intellectually disabled? It is an overpriced Creamsicle, a "Fantasy" as referred to in the original article that started this conversation.

I hope no student with down syndrome goes into any debt to attend college.

Politically speaking, talking about education and appearing supportive of it is very popular, but much of what you hear in public is contrived rhetoric spun a thousand times over to appeal to voters. Here is why:
It gives you a good feeling when you think about students from many different backgrounds pursuing a degree.
And For 30 - 40 years now colleges have waved that banner of educational accessibility, claiming it is the way for economic development
This website challenges that notion.
American Tax Dollars are being used right now to support educational endeavors for students from all walks of life. There is guaranteed education for students all the way through high school.
I question why it is that our public education system through age 18 cannot provide everything a disabled person needs to learn to function in society. Pressure those institutions to provide more for the intellectually disabled, that is what they are there for. The social safety net is already in place.

Anonymous said...

The reality is that opportunity for College is passed out as easily as PEZ candy now at an innumerable number of institutions. ANYONE can get admitted to some college somewhere and be qualified for a Federal Loan (and possibly grants) to pay the Bill. There is NO incentive for colleges to do anything but admit whoever wants to show up.

Colleges will gladly provide false hope to anyone interested in attending by claiming facts like College Grads earn a million dollars more than non-college counterparts (this was proven completely false)

The real issue here is determining what lengths for profit and non-profit colleges will go to build programs and increase revenues. Colleges are very much a business, and based on their trajectory they will continue down this road of admitting whoever wants a degree, as long as the expense is paid for.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately in the wake of this admissions bonanza, they leave millions of students in student loan debt for degrees that do not qualify them for the type of employment they thought they earned.

It is terrible to wave this concept of success in the eyes of young people, telling them the only way to succeed in life is to go to college, go heavily into debt if needed, and then graduate them into an economy with little hope. At the end of the day, at least half of college graduates today never needed the degree to learn the skills they needed to fulfill the jobs they end up getting. What a waste of time and money.
Now, colleges want to extend a "college experience" to the intellectually disabled? It is an overpriced Creamsicle, a "Fantasy" as referred to in the original article that started this conversation.

I hope no student with down syndrome goes into any debt to attend college.

Politically speaking, talking about education and appearing supportive of it is very popular, but much of what you hear in public is contrived rhetoric spun a thousand times over to appeal to voters. Here is why:
It gives you a good feeling when you think about students from many different backgrounds pursuing a degree.
And For 30 - 40 years now colleges have waved that banner of educational accessibility, claiming it is the way for economic development
This website challenges that notion.
American Tax Dollars are being used right now to support educational endeavors for students from all walks of life. There is guaranteed education for students all the way through high school.
I question why it is that our public education system through age 18 cannot provide everything a disabled person needs to learn to function in society. Pressure those institutions to provide more for the intellectually disabled, that is what they are there for. The social safety net is already in place.

Anonymous said...

Hey gang, it doesn't matter what you say in response to the knee-jerk entitlement minded label your opposition as a 'bigot,' 'racist' or 'insensitive' militia that have apparently latched on to this post. It isn't going to change their mind that their kid is "entitled" to a college education.

And don't kid yourself (no pun intended), "entitled" is the proper word to use in this sense. I read the AP report, and I quote: "The federal rules that took effect this fall allow students with intellectual disabilities to receive grants and work-study money." Does anyone notice anything missing? Yeah, exactly, its not going to cost them anything... they're going to be getting grants and "work-study money," whatever the hell that is...

So don't worry about Stephanie's kid being saddled with unmanageable or unserviceable debt, its not going to cost him, or her, anything...we're the ones that are going to be paying for this ridiculous politically correct feel good experiment, in more ways than one... Anyone else notice the references in the article to changing the way classes are taught, you know, the lets move away from the lectures into something Stephanie will feel better about, yeah, group activity, that's the key! I'd be thrilled to find out that I paid $35k a year in tuition so I could learn from the "group."

Sorry, but I have just about had it with all the victim-hood and entitlement minded BS that I have to hear about, and deal with, nearly every day...

Stephanie said...

My Mom is a PhD professor working at a State College. I can guarantee that those who qualify for work study and some Pell grants DO NOT get their entire bill paid for....and no, you probably won't have to worry about my son in particular going to college. But for those people, who happen to have DS or Autism, or any other inteelectual disability, who CAN do the work and WILL be able to get jobs in their field - why should they be excluded?

Did you know there are 3 types of Down syndrome? One of which a person only has an extra chromosome in SOME of the cells in their body. So by your reasoning, that person who only has DS say, in their skin or liver, but has a perfectly functioning brain...would be excluded because of YOUR bigotry.

That strawman argument is valid. Decrimination is decriminate where ever it occurrs. Not everybody should go to college. There are plenty of people out there without "diagnosis" who should never see the inside of a college....why should those who happen to have one be exclueded?

And yeah, if my son was ABLE to go to college - you can bet I would be damn proud to pay his way. If he were able to get a job and help with that, I would be even more proud. In our case, that will never happen.

As for public school preparing people with any disability for living ....it is laughable. The fact that the statement was even made shows that the people making the argument have no clue what is involved in educating a person with any type of disability. Just a heads up, you negotiate what your child is taught in public school from the age of 3 on. What you get depends on how well you negtiate, how well funded the school is, and how far you are willing to go to get your child what they need. With the economy the way it is, special needs are the FIRST line of cuts made in all districts, fewer teachers, fewer aids, no nurses, no therapists, on and on and on. If kids come out of that system and qualify to go to college, they have MORE than earned their right to do so.

The only people with a sense of enititlement here are those who are fighting so hard to keep anybody different out. Grow up.

Stephanie

Anonymous said...

Wow, take a Valium or a Xanax or something, would you please? And perhaps head back over to your own blogs...before you have a hypertensive crisis

TUC said...

Everybody knows that a highschool education doesn't get you a job in a specialized field. If a person with Ds or any other disability wants to continue their education in order to procure a job beyond Target, then so be it... as long as they can do the work.

If colleges want to create programs or degrees specific to those who learn differently or more slowly, why not? And as far as taxpayers footing the bill... we already foot the bill for numerous students. I'd rather pay for your "minority" education than support you on welfare your whole life.

It is a shame that so many graduates with high level degrees can't get good jobs but I think that is more a product of our current economic/political situation than the fact that people with lesser IQs are allowed to go to college.

I have three children with Ds and I would be happy if they were able to go to college, intellectually and financially. I qualified for all kinds of money for college just because I was born smart, why shouldn't my child who has to try three times as hard qualify for some help if he is willing to do the work and can do it?

Anyway, your title should be something like "Got a cognitive disability? ..." so that you aren't knocking people with Ds, because some people with Ds can absorb and put to good use a higher education.

Anonymous said...

Seems to me that an awful lot of people out there are in positive denial about the absolute value of an education: in real terms equaling ultimate employment opportunities / value for money borrowed and subsequently invested.
If education were relatively affordable (procured without debt) this would be a non-issue.
However, profits earned from selling the stuff is now front and center as the truly "American Way."
for shame.....................

If every single grad did every single thing perfectly right, the consequences would be?....
Then we'd know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there never was enough to go around, nor will there ever be. At that point we would not need CNN to tell us so.

I agree with the blogger, for reasons that should be obvious.
Not everyone indebted by higher educational costs belongs in halls of higher learning.
This was clear to our elders, many of whom were sensible enough to don the blue collar and just bloody well work hard for a living. Much as we might like to believe it - not all of them were academic "virgins" shrinking unto the grave. For many, academia was a sort of high opera, versus Elvis and the fine sensibility of Jersey boys.
Debate it all you like...we have too many losers draining too little resources. Blame the fools for not being Einsteins, or laugh at them for not having rich daddies, or just pull ageist rank, or whatever.
Times change, and new realities present perspective shifts.
Where does China's real wealth come from?
Uneducated peasants - removed from land to factory (just as ours did 100 years ago.)
wow.

Anonymous said...

A little late to the game, but I find this post so highly offensive that a response is warranted. Frankly, I am glad that people like this author and Nando didn't find legal employment - the legal field does not need people them.

"Thus, in my opinion people with Down Syndrome and other cognitive disabilities simply should not be able to gain access to college, at least not on the taxpayers' dime, nor should they feel a compelling need to do so."

As other commenters have said, why should a whole class of people be excluded from access to college? There are many types of cognitive disabilities, and some people with such disabilities might benefit from a college education. Shouldn't it be up to a disabled person's parent and doctors to determine whether that person would benefit from college, instead of some "highly intelligent" - or so they think- college grads, who were so smart they couldn't find a job? As the third commenter said, some people with cognitive disabilities can use college to gain employment, which is more than you can say.

And Nando, you are the biggest idiot I have ever come across, which says a lot. Just because you know one disabled person who might not benefit from a college degree does not mean that every disabled person would not benefit from college. You are a disgusting human being, and frankly, deserve all of the suffering you come across. As a successful lawyer myself, I am so glad you are not part of my profession.

Frank the Underemployed Professional said...

To the Guy at February 6, 2011 5:16 PM:

Can you name some professions that a person with Down Syndrome could train to do in college that make actual use of college education? Is there any realistic chance that he would be able to compete against people without cognitive disabilities for jobs in those fields?

It's possible that I simply don't understand all of the impairments of Down Syndrome. As far as I know, if you have Down Syndrome you are mentally retarded or at best "slow". Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia (not necessarily an authoritative source): "The average IQ of children with Down syndrome is around 50, compared to normal children with an IQ of 100."

I'm not saying that it should be illegal for someone with Down Syndrome to go to college if he merits a place in college. I'm just saying that it should be more difficult for people to gain admission to college to the point where people with Down Syndrome would be excluded simply because they would not be part of the top 15-20% of the population in terms of intelligence. However, if someone with Down Syndrome has an IQ of 120 and doesn't have any real cognitive impairment and they can gain admission to college on merit, all the power to him.

Anonymous said...

I'm also late responding, but so many negative responders to this blog, just don't get it. it is already ILLEGAL for colleges to discriminate on the basis of "disability". Plus, colleges must make "reasonable accomdations" for those who have a disability. What this means is, any person with Down's Syndrome or Autism (which is totally different, but a responder brought it up) who are QUALIFIED have already been gaining access to college. Lowering college standards so that more disabled people qualify helps no one. It doesn't help the disabled person who will still have the same job prospects that they had before they went to college, and ran up a big debt. It doesn't help the economy for people to be out of the workforce gaining an education that the can't put to practical use. And it doesn't help the national budget, when money is used in such a way that it only benefits school administrators.

Anonymous said...

Nando-

I'm not a college graduate but I have done very well for myself - nevertheless I digress. I have two questions for you:

1. Are you sure you went to college? You speak and/or type with so many grammatical and spelling errors, that I'm not sure what you're asking.

2. Are you sure you're not the one with 'water on the brain'?

If anyone has the potential and desire to better themselves then who are you (we) to stand in their way? You are obviously as brain dead as they come but even YOU were allowed to attend an institution of higher learning and I support your right to do so.

I think what is really bothering you is that a college degree doesn't really mean poop now because even people with brain disorders are capable of earning them as well; which means you are not as superior as you once thought, ha ha.

Seriously though, have you ever stop to think that if people with Down Syndrome are attending college, then perhaps it is a sign to the medical world they need to spend more time investigating the possibilities of unlocking a treatment or cure that would completely negate the symptoms of Down Syndrome? These kids are doing just what they were put here to do...make the world sit up and take notice.

Some of them are very persistent people and are just as intelligent as the next person. They, with or without the assistance of their parents, have a highter incidence of paying off their loans! Compare this with the student loan default rate, which rose 50% since 2009, by supposedly "normal" people who have no prospects or intentions of paying the government back - Down Syndrom kids are no more of a financial risk than anyone else.

Hopefully you have the mental capability to understand the point I'm making.

Anonymous said...

Hello, it seems that there is a great deal of emotion/resentment in this debate that seems a bit misguided. Thus, I will attempt to examine this issue in the most neutral way possible

I recently graduated with a BA in psychology from a major university, and most of my study in the field was developmental and cognitive. Given the understanding I have regarding the nature of Down's and other developmental disabilities, I think that many of the respondents here are equating the author's argument to a form of "predjudice" against people with Down's just because they have Down's. I don't believe that that was what was intended.

It makes no sense that people with Down Syndrome would be actively excluded from college by admissions simply because they have Downs. However, and as painful as it is for some to hear, the fact of the matter is that the majority of people with Down's struggle through high school due to their intellectual ability.

If there are so many other more qualified applicants that are not able to get into school what merits allowing someone who is unqualified for inclusion because they lack the attributes necessary to college success?

I am currently taking the premedical courses necessary to gain entry to medical school Although I am very intelligent, I also have a nonverbal learning disability where it takes me longer to process information/complete tasks and thus work much harder to keep up with others without. I am accommodated by the school to this end with extra time on exams but take the same courses as everyone else and am held to the same standard. Should I be allowed into Harvard Med or Tufts if I cannot meet the standard of admission? (~10 percent of all applicants are admitted, mean GPA of Harvard applicants ~3.9)

To the angry respondents: If you believe your children should go to university, do you expect your children to meet the same standard of work as all "normal" students do? Do research? Write theses? Take the same exams? Because I expect myself to do those things better than most other people regardless of whatever disability I may have.

If the answer is no, your children do not belong in college regardless of whether they have Down's or not. However, if they have the cognitive potential to meet this standard with some support than I fully empathize with their efforts (because I am the same) and the more power to them.

Otherwise, I would suggest some alternative paths to further education that are more vocationally based on applicable life skills. Those paths do not lie in colleges and nor should they in the author's opinion unless they are of an equivalent level.

You can't get a bachelor's degree in life management skills.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you completely. Its not just retards either.. (yes I DID use that word... I'll get to that later) It should also apply to people of average intelligence levels. Why do you need college to be a secretary and other jobs at that level? On the front page of Yahoo today they are talking about a guy that has over 100k in student loans from a culinary arts degree.... 100k to be a cook. Really?

Now as promised the reason I use the word retard. There are going to be people saying its a hurtful word, but is it really? That was the actual medical term used to describe someone that has difficulty learning. At what point did this become a bad thing? Who decided it was bad to be who you are or that someone was insulting you if they referred to your condition? I'm sick of the words changing because someone decides its an insult when it isn't.

crippled -> disabled -> handicapped -> handicapable (really?)

midget -> little person -> dwarf

simpleton -> retard -> person with mental retardation

The ONLY reason these words become "bad" is someone is ashamed of their condition... or ashamed to be associated with a person with that condition.

Everyone can take their righteous indignation and shove it.

Anonymous said...

According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, white-collar crime is estimated to cost the United States more than $300 billion annually.

There are 4,000 persons with Ds born each year in the US. Not that they would all go but say you send all 16,000 18-22 year olds with Ds to college at $35K per year. It would cost us $560 million annually or 0.0019% of what white collar criminals, most with degrees from our higher education system, steal from us yearly. I am FINE with paying for few kids with disability who want to better themselves so they don't have to live on SSI.

Blogger Templates by OurBlogTemplates.com 2007